Category: Zone BBS Icon 2006
Hello to all of my fellow Zoners,
I am writing this because I want to tell you, my fellow zoners what has happened to me. I am speaking both as an Icon judge and a day-to-day person.
I want to tell you about my experience with Zone Icon and how I feel about what has happened to me. Zone Icon is a project that was undertaken by the zonebbs and by JAMMIN’ 85.3. Both entities were excited to be a part of such a project. The project launched itself beautifully and all worked together as a team to nourish it and help it to grow. I was very excited to be a judge/staff member on the team that has allowed Icon to bloom. Recently however, I have begun to question my decision made months ago. I recently was accused of leaking privileged information regarding Icon related material to people on the zone. This accusation astonished me greatly and made me feel bad. I guess it all started Last Tuesday evening. After the Icon show aired, I went to spend time with some friends of mine on another ventrilo server. We at Icon had decided to make voting stats public and as such, I saw nothing wrong with telling a few of my friends about the stats. Looking back on this, I see how this action was wrong of me, but an Icon staff member was present when I took this action. I heard nothing else on this until I was told about an emergency meeting that was to be called on Thursday evening.
At this meeting, I was accused of leaking information about Icon related matters. A staff member said he heard me telling people about theme related Icon show plans. This astonished me as I know I had not done such a thing. I admitted to telling people who really do not come on the zone that much about voting stats. This meeting continued with staff members giving there view points. I was allowed to defend myself at that time, but I was so shocked by the accusations, that my defense was flimsy. Eventually a vote was past to remove me from the staff of Zone Icon. I was so shocked and hurt at the same time. I have done my best as an Icon staff member and given of my time. My weekends have been nothing but Icon related since this project started. So to be voted off just like that, hurt a great deal. I decided that I needed to appeal. So to that end, I spoke to Icon staff and asked for a chance to appeal. This was granted to me, and a meeting was called on Saturday Nov. 18 at 12:00 pm. At that time, the Icon staff minus myself met to talk about an option that had been brought to the attention of the collective. They decided they would keep me on as a judge, but I would have no rights. That meant, I would only be called for recordings, and judge related activities. So I would not be allowed to attend staff meetings, vote on show ideas, or voice my views on show format. I must make it quite clear that the judges are considered staff members with all the rights and privileges there in. As I am the vice president of JAMMIN’ 85.3, I felt I had no choice but to take this option. To have a judge disappear in the middle of the show would not look good. But I feel at this point, that I should not be half a part of icon. I publicly ask that all of my rights as an Icon staff person be returned to me. As I am a part of the show, I think that I should have some say in show related matters. I am proud of what icon has become, and as such, I want a full part in its development. Do not allow me to just be someone that is only called on when it is time for a pretty face, or an energetic voice.
Thank you,
Aaron
Very sad to see this has happened Aaron!
They are totally being unfair to you!
To my fellow Zoners, Rather then hereing it from someone else, I can say with my head held high, that I am no longer part of the Zone Icon team. I wanted to be the first to tell you all this. I knew that when I posted the original post, this would happen. I wanted to make sure you all knew the truth though. I wanted to leave on my own terms, not those of the staff who originally wanted to give me a half ass opportunity. I was accused, and I repeat accused of leaking information. Although I did admit to the voting issue, I have done nothing else to warrant dismissal. And that voting slip up of mine was only because all the stats were going to be made public anyway. Its been nice, its been fun, but I am afraid that the energetic judge is gone. I love you all, and will be around on the zone, but Icon is in my past. Good luck to all of you contestant, you are all awesome, and I support you all the way. If I can provide karaoke tracks or any help or advice at all, just hit me up. Keep singing song birds, Aaron
Sorry to hear that you were unfairly kicked off the show. It won't be the same without you.
*cries copius tears of sadness*
aaron, you're one of the most fantastic judges, and i hope you know what a help you've been to me as a performer with confidence and so on.
I'll really, really really really really really miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiss you!!!
I can say, for certain, that aaron has done his best and has given wonderful constructive help from the various performances, and i think he will be a big loss to the show.
*wonders off sadly*
awww huge hugs, Aaron.
I know you don't know me very well, but I'm going to state how I feel anyways.
I'm Sad to see you go, you totally rock, and you were my fave judge. I think you were unfarily treated, and to be given a half-ass part in the show, was friggin peanuts, since you seemed like you gave it your all.
Icon's definitely not gonna be the same without that energy. *pout*
Stay strong.
hugs,
The Sassiest of Kitties.
Well Aaron, what can I say? this kicking-off-staff thing happened to me a few years ago as we know; for reasons mainly to do with you my friend! Lol *grin* and, even though you and I got past that mess somewhat, we still don't talk as much as we use too and as much as I'd like. anyway all this to say, that I thought you were a wonderful judge and you were definitely qualified enough and did put a lot into icon. I'm sorry to hear this.
Being treated unfairly, again, was what I delt with a few years ago in my being kicked off the CL team, so I know how it feels.
Cheers!
In response to the subject matter made public by Lieutenant Commander La Forge (User 1160), the Icon Staff has the following to say:
Firstly, Mister Aaron was given full opportunity to voice his defense against any and all accusations brought against him during a passed Staff meeting. He was furthermore allowed to elaborate upon his defense in repeal, a meeting we elected to hold in Mister Aaron's favour. Each staff member was given his/her own time to voice their views and opinions with regard to the incident involving the individual in question.
While Mister Aaron's contributions to the Zone Icon project are sincerely appreciated, his prior conduct with respect to the privileged information expressed in private Icon Staff meetings and all the rights and provisions thereof have been clearly unprofessional. With that in mind, The Icon Staff would like to address the following points brought forth by him:
well sorry to say this but ...
why does it not surprise me in the slightest that this whole thing has descended into farce.
So aaron spoke of the voting statistics. Big deal. They're made public anyway. And it's aledged that he spoke of future themed shows. And yet he states that this did not happen. Maybe he was given his chance to speak out at the "emergency meeting", but let's face it, when you're put on the spot it's not always just as simple as coming up with a well thought out, coherent response is it. Undoubtedly the rest of the icon staff had been pre warned of the meeting and the reasons for it, so had time to formulate their own responses, whereas aaron would have been put on the spot.
When Icon started I was genuinely impressed with the way it had been produced. It's not easy to get people from across the world to all perform on the same set as it were and before the shows aired I thought that it would be an amaturish affair, but the production team had put in a real effort and I really liked the results. But sadly since the beginning it has been tinged with controvercy, withdrawals, disqualifications, and now the removal/resignation of a judge under questionable circumstances. I'm sorry to say that if I were a sponsor of this farce I would be seriously questioning my commitment to sponsoring any of it - can this site not do anything without it descending into chaos/"drama".
The zone has a bad reputation for being the home of "drama". I would have thought with icon that some of this reputation might be salvageable, that users might be given the impression that the zone was capable of professional, well thought out competition. But no, this too has to descend into farce like the rest.
I just read the post put here by the icon staff. and I have this to say. First of all, I would never knowingly give one contestant an advantage over another. The contestant refered to in kai's post is Harriet Potter. Kai said. "he originally was to have no part at all in Icon after his leakage
of voting statistics and his divulgence of certain production-related matters to one of the contestants." If you all read the bord that JH radio posted, he made a statement about the icon staff mixing Ms. potter's track with her voice. I told her that it was a possibility that this might happened because I remember icon staff telling me to tell her that she could not depend on it, but it might happen. I made it quite clear to her that because the show mixing took so much time, that mixing her track was not the most important. Since she performed her song live, it was a possibility that her track could then just be mixed with her live vocals. But the fact of the matter is it didn't happen and she sang because she was not prepared, and the audio team should not be held accountable for that. I would not tell her information that I knew with a absolute certainty she was not to know. And as for me suggesting that I be given parsial privlidges that is simply not the case. Why would I want a half ass position? I mean come on! I was surprised when this option was set before me. Icon is about working together and sharing in the joy of music. I wanted this badly, and I am sorry it has to end like this. I don't consider posting this bord topic a breach of confidentiality. I have not revealed any information that could give a contestant an unfair advantage. I am just voicing my oppinions. How is that a breach?
I totally agree with Claire's post. This was probably the only good thing going on on the zone, something that could have given the whole site a bit more credibility, but as is, look what it's become.
this seems to be turning into a "he said" "she said" type situation.
Reality is, you could not prevent this from going public. If Aaron had been quietly taken off the pannel how would you have explained it to the listeners? You would have to tell them something, and once you make public that a judge has been removed from the staff, you have to give a reason why, because if you don't, people will just draw their own conclusions. And once you've given a reason why, that judge has the right to speak out and either justify or defend what happened. But it does seem in this case, that Aaron has jumped in first and given his side of the story before a properly drafted reason for his exclusion could be posted by the rest of the staff.
So, Aaron said he had spoken about voting stats, rest of staff say he declared confidential info to a contestant. Aaron says he appealed and was offered a compromise, be a judge but lose all other privilages, staff say that it was aaron's idea to lose all other privilages and only sit on the judging pannel. (it does strike me as odd that he would do that and then go public saying otherwise). Aaron says that he has resigned from the staff of zone icon, staff say that aaron's position was revoked as a result of him posting this topic. so, either aaron knew he would be taken off the staff for posting this publically, or he resigned. bearing in mind, he had posted that he was no longer a part of the icon staff in his first post, a post which, apparently, resulted in his dismissal.
It does seem very much like his word against the rest, but given how things have been posted/responded to, I have to say that the take of the zone icon's staff on this does not add up when compared to aaron's take on the matter.
So now I'm interested. will they be recruiting a new judge? And isn't liz due to give birth iminently? how are you going to cope with potentially only one judge?
Well, I have to say I'm incredibly disappointed. I've enjoyed Icon more than I thought I would, but this somehow takes away from the whole experience. I believe Aaron is within his rights to voice his feelings, especially considering how hurt he must feel at this treatment. I don't see here anything said that could be construed as leaking information, and while Aaron and I often disagree, am glad he's shared this.
Kai, I'm incredibly disappointed with you or whoever else composed your post from the staff, it's totally patronising, and written with an air of authority that simply is beyond. We normally get on, and agree on most things, but in that post you sound like a pompous ass, who believes himself to be above and beyond Aaron.
I really don't know if after reading all this, that I want to continue following and supporting the show. it's become somewhat of a farce. If I decide to do so, it will only be to support the few contestants left, and not because of any enjoyment after this.
and what of the sponsors. have they been informed of the changed situation? because as sponsors, they have a right to know.
If i ran a reputable company, I'm not sure I would want its name to be associated with this.
I think you guys are being really unfair to the icon staff. this is just my opinion. you guys are jumping to conclusions. As they said in there posts they discussed it in the meeting. Do you or I know what was said in this meeting? no! So how can you sit there and say he was treated unfair? You guys know the staff, some better than others. Why would they make up a story about one judge, wwhich they are all friends with? So Clair, put yourself in there situation. you devote all your time to a progect. And I for one know dam well they have! So yeah, say you devote all your time to a project. Have staff that you trust not to leak out the results before the results show. I mean come on thshow is called a results show. How the heck can you think it's ok to give the results before the show? Back to what i was saying. Claire how would you feell if your hard work and time was put into it, to have a member of staff potentialy rigging the votes. I know in his rebuttle he says he wasn't, but he said in his first post he was giving the results before the poll was final. How do you or I know, them people didn't go and vote for the one person he said was behind on votes? So you want to point fingers and talk about unfairness? Kev, I don't know what you are talking about either. I think Kai's post was done very professional. No matter what he said you would have had something to say about it. I think it was only fair for him to say the staff's part in this. if Aaron had a problem with the staff, maybe he should have talked to them about it instead. yeah, he has his rights to tell his side, but come on. we're not in high school anymore. I know the meeting was before the show was done. He still went ahead and did it. So he must not have had any issues with it then. This is getting crazy. All these boards complaining about the work of the staff. If I was the staff I would say forget it. But, it's not fair to the contestants.
To the staff. You guys are doing a great job. If only people would be greatful for that! I so wish all these people complaining would have one day to do what you guys aare doing. They won't be bitching half as much!
As far as the drama part, that's just a part of life. Like anyone could help the fact that puggle had to withdraw, and Clarence didn't follow the rules. I'm having a hard time seeing how any of this could have been the staff's fault? Please enlighten me! now I think i'll go play with my harpsichord! smiles!
Awwww Aaron, I'll miss you hun. *sad face* Your fun energetic comments always made my day, I'll miss you hun.
Your judging was awesome, and the effort you put into it. I know I am speaking for myself at least when I say you will be missed dearly.
Great job judging!... Loved it!... lol
Love ya Aaron.
Jessica
Shea, I have no doubt that the icon staff have worked hard on icon. In fact I said as much in my first post. Obviously we don’t know what went on on the ventrilo server or in the staff meeting, but Aaron stated in his post that “just after the show aired on Tuesday night” he had gone on to a ventrilo server and had discussed voting statistics with someone who was not a regular on the zone. So, given that the voting is open for 24 hours from the airing of the first show (on Tuesday night), Aaron couldn’t possibly have known who had been iliminated as the vote was not yet final, so this blows totally out of the water the accusation that he had given away the final result before the results show had aired. As for knowing who was behind on votes, why are the staff given access to this information before the votes are final? On any talent show, the voting statistics only become available when the voting has closed. And this happens for this exact reason! So that no-one can inadvertently benefit any contestant.
As for Kai’s post, it was extremely patronising, especially considering the fact he seemed to feel the constant need to refer to Aaron as “mister Aaron”, absolutely nothing professional about that.
Just because the staff have worked hard on Icon, doesn’t mean that they are beyond criticism. After all, one learns from one’s mistakes, and if one is not capable of taking criticism on board, then maybe one should rethink one’s position.
No of course we could not have foreseen that krystel would withdraw and that Clarence would be disqualified, but sadly all that has added to the latest piece of icon drama. The zone could have done really well with this, although there has been some negativity on other boards which has been unfounded, the majority of people who have listened in the past have been very positive, but sadly this latest development has tinged the whole event.
Shea, I tried to limit my comments and opinions to what was posted here. I like claire has confirmed feel the tone of Kai's post was like schoolmaster to naughty child. Mister Aaron indeed, it's patronising. Maybe Kai and the others are angry about this, but that's no need to be patronising. Plus bare in mind as you said, for whatever reason, and we as zoners don't know all the details which is why I restricted my comments to posts here, is that Aaron feels let down and betrayed by a group of people he thought were his friends. They by the sound of it feel disappointed and let down by him, however I really don't see what happened being justifiable to treat someone the way Aaron has been treated. As for the work put in by the staff, if you read all the Icon boards you'll know that I have thanked and praised them for such, so there is no real need to start acknowledging that again and making this board just another thank you to them.
I'm with FClaire, it is apparent that we infact don't neet to know all teh details, as even thoughs who do aren't in agreement as to what went on, so it would make much differents. I know your all putting a lot of time into it. time I unfortunately couldn't dedicate, as I wasn't informed of the dedication expected. but I think what your all forgetting, staff contestants and listeners alike, is that this all started as a bit of fun. get over the professionality a bit and remember that before this all started, we were all mates who had a joke with each other, and at the end of the day, when icon is over, I don't think it's fair to say that we would expect everything to go on as before. Things are obviously falling apart in the professional areana anyway as the sponsors wern't invited to this staff meeting, and as the suporters of this whole venture, I think have mroe say than the other judges, hoasts, or any behind the scenes people. It would e interesting to hear Q's and the other sponsors take on the whole thing.
This is so ridiculous! If I didn't like two or three of the remaining people in the contest, I wouldn't bother listening anymore!
What a pool of responders. As for the dismissal well, Aaron knew that this would happen he said as much.
"I can say with my head held high, that I am no longer part of the Zone Icon team. I wanted
to be the first to tell you all this. I knew that when I posted the original post, this would happen. "
This is a learning experience for all involved not including the participants judges and listeners. I think the staff should be proud of their job and presenting it in a professional manner only goes to show how serious they are about adding their names to something that at the end of the day they can be proud of. Opening the behind the scenes portion of any controversy almost guarantees people will continue to listen just to see what happens next. Unlike television people have a chance to comment on the goings on in regards to this melodrama as it unfolds. To quote someone smarter than I, "shit happens."
Well Aaron, I see that you have everybody in an uprore. Do not let them get you down. From what I see, the icon staff is a bunch of ungreatful little trolls, and I worned you about that Mark a long time ago. After all that you have done for these people, they turned their backs on you, and your so called friend was ready to believe the werst. They lost a great person and a true friend.
I agree with krystel, in fact I said as much in previous posts that sponsors should be informed. Considering Aaron is vice president of jamin83 - what do they have to say about it? they carry the contest after all.
DF I agree to a large extent that contravercy makes people want to listen more. In most cases, but not on here. There were already a large proportion of people (see zone icon bash board) who were negative to the contest from the start. And without good reason. Now this incident has given them the excuce they need to say "we were right, it was all a load of crap". And unfortunately the supporters of icon, those who have been impressed with the efforts of the staff, are now less than impressed as well.
wow, drama, hmm, what to say! If I were Aaron, I would have waited till the judging was over then post this topic. That's how you have your cake and eat it too! I don't get a chance to listen to the shows as it is, but I doubt I'll even give it a listen now. Aaron was the only judge with some energy. Nothing personal but Liz sounded like she was bored and asleep and Maddog well, he just sounded like maddog.
The only thing else I might add is, Next time you all do this pick one person to be your PI or public information person. Public relations, what ever. Then let them deal with all the drama and the rest of you stick to the show till it's over.
What the hell is this? What's with all the sympathy? The only difference now he's gone, is that we won't have to here "oh my god!" after every performance, and a man trying to behave like a drama queen by trying to get reactions with his comments, and screeching like he's had a sex change! Now people have criticised the response from the Icon staff for being like schoolmaster to pupil. Can you blame them? This man deliberately made private matters public on the boards and why? bedcause the poor little child couldn't have his own way. Post 1 in this topic is just a plea for everybody to feel sorry for "mister Aaron" made by himself in what can surely only be described as an example of complete insecurity. If a company holds confidential meetings, then the contents of those meetings shouldn't be revealed, and decisions which are made shouldn't be implemented, until what happened at the meeting becomes official knowledge. So, if you know that stats will be revvealed in future, you wait until that decision is made public before revealing the stats. That's obvious. What's this boy going to do if he gets sacked? Go crying to a newspaper? Try stirring trouble for those who sacked him? Try drawing attention to himself and putting on the "victim" act? It's pathetic, that's what it is, but its even more pathetic that many people are taking it upon themselves to sympathise with "mister Aaron", and in doing so therefore, are showing him that its okay to act like a spoilt child when you can't have your way!
OK, Here is a proposal. why not put it to a vote on the zone. keep aaron or dismiss him. come on icon staff, to whom i consider my friends, have the courage to let the people of the zone decide. post both sides of the argument on the zone icon page and hand it to the listeners, whom i might add are as important as the staff, sponsers and contestants. without the listeners the show would not exsist. Quit with the bitchfest and let the people decide.
First of all, let me start off by saying,what you guys did to aaron was wrong. so He told shit. Big Fuckin deal who gives a shit woopty fuckin do. also, you all are a bunch of washed up mother fuckers, you don't fuckin know what you want, Get a life. aaron had the most energy out of the whole croud, and Liz too, but as far as you other people you guys are just half ass!! thank you.
And oh by the way, that half ass coment was exluding Liz, Harp and aaron, as far as you other mother Fuckers, the question remains to be seen, I figured that this hole Icon thing would be a fuckin joke anyway, and thats just how it turned out.
Puggle asked for my view on the matter.
Here's the "for now" version. I'm going away for a week tomorrow, and when I return next Thursday, I'll have a look as to how this whole thing developed, and if necessary, I'll add something to this board then.
However:
There are always 2 sides to every story.
In this case, one can say it's Aaron versus the rest of the Icon Staff.
Both parties did a great job in presenting the Zone Icon show.
On the one hand there's the very energetic Aaron, who, may I say, I was always waiting to hear what's going to come out of his mouth once he opens it, and more than once, I had to really laugh out loud at some of his sayings, for they were really good, and I enjoyed listening to Aaron.
Then there was the rest of the Icon staff who, in my opinion, up to now did a highly professional job in bringing us the Zone Icon show.
So on that score, hats off to both parties.
But:
My theory is that both parties made mistakes while handling this situation.
Why?
I'll tell you.
Regarding Aaron, I thought it is common practise to not leak out information prior to the official release time thereof.
Aaron did not keep to this important rule, and thus, he, as I see it, broke the "circle of trust" thingie that I assume existed between him and the rest of the Icon Staff.
As for the Icon staff, I find the almost "hoity toity" manner in which they responded, not at all impressive.
If they answered with a decent, down to earth reply, one would probably have been able to understand why they took the measures against Aaron that they did take in the end.
They unfortunately chose to take on an almost arrogant, bossy tone in their post, and may I say, I don't appreciate that either.
As for the statement posted earlier about involvement from the Sponsors's side, I cannot comment on that really, as I hardly know what's going on behind the scenes, and somehow, I am fine with that.
I saw a good cause in this whole Icon thingie, and offered a sponsorship.
For me to withdraw my sponsorship now, only because this thing has not lived up to some of our expectations, is not an option, because I don't get involved with something and then withdraw because I don't like something.
If I pledge something, I deliver.
That's how I was brought up, and that's what I believe in.
To conclude:
Both Aaron (for who I have a lot of respect), and the Icon Staff (who put enormous efforts in to this thing), handled this thing poorly, in my opinion any way.
Let's hope that a positive solution is reached before the recordings on Saturday, and that Zone Icon will be able to regain some of it's popularity as the contest becomes stronger.
Good luck to all involved.
Richard, I actually don't agree with that. However I would suggest that unless it would give out information that is confidential I think we should be given the other side of the story exactly. I'm not suggesting Aaron is lying, but from the bits I've seen, it has been suggested that the decision was made before Aaron was ever given chance to defend himself, and that any subsequent meeting was giving him lip service.
If I was Aaron, the only time I'd go back, is if I was asked by the staff, and if I felt it would be the best thing for the rest of the competition. Otherwise I don't think he should even if given the chance. He obviously feels hurt and let down by people he believed were his friends.
I also think that to give zone members a vote would possibly push Aaron back into a situation not only awkward for him, but one where he wasn't at all welcome, which again wouldn't work, as the chemistry that has been zone Icon would be gone.
I think we should leave it alone and wait to see if the staff want to put the side of the story as they see it accurately. and hope that if this is done that it can be done calmly without some of the bad feeling that has been shown to date.
Kev, I agree with your points, however, it now already seems the chemistry is gone, and what was a great fun contest, turned out to be a bunch of drama, and no fun for anyone, whether it be aaron, the contestants, or the staff. Just my oppinion on the matter though, the judging will not be the same without aaron, no matter who they pick.
Well, unless he leaves the zone he could all ways put his comments on the boards. Granted it wouldn't be the same, but you'd at least get his opinion.
oh well, i thought it was a good idea. Since the zoners seem to have no voice in the situation. i only meant it if aaron wanted to come back. but, i guess as usual, i was wrong. sorry.
Whether arren was an energetic judge, and fun is not the issue. What is, is that he clearly breached confidentiality within the relm of the icon staff, and now he chooses to act as a spoiled child by appealing to the members of the zone. Perhaps arren would have done himself a favor, and acted like an adult. If he had issues with his being removed from the icon project, he should, and could have clearly expressed his views to the appropriate sources, and none of this would be an issue. As for the rest of the icon staff, an incredible amount of work has been put forth, and one bitter person had to ruine it for many who enjoyed a creative and well constructed project. This clearly shows whom one can and cannot trust......
Richard, disagreement with you, does not dictate the correctness of a view, so please don't appologise for them.
What irritates me about this, and no i am not impartial towards, aaron, as those of you who know me well is this. The idea of the zone is to allow people to express their opinion without being policed. This is certainly not the case on other sites. To say that aaron was dismissed for the things he wrote in the beginning is rediculous. No aaron might not have handled this as well as he could have, but neither did the staff.
If someone thought this was an issue, it interests me that as far as we kinow, they didn't bring it directly to aaron's attention first, and maybe they did, but I see no evidence to proove this. That would have been the mature, appropriate way to deal with it. Furthermore, as for the tone of the staff's response, it was incredibly patronizing, rude, and disrespectful. If someone had written something like that to me, refering to me as Mr. Shawn, I'd be glad to have no more to do with some members of the group.
Its a shame to see that something that could have been such a fun and positive experience can turn into such negativity. Unless the staff is completely different asuming there is another season, I won't be entering, not just because aaron is my friend, but because the lack of unrofessionalism is appalling. And at this rate, there probaby won't be one, I think the staff has unwittingly assured that.
I don't know the entire situation because I don't have time to read through all the posts. So I can't sit here and argue about whether I think Aaron broke confidentiality. But what I will comment on is the fact that, although I've never had any issues with Kai, the tone of his post toward Aaron was EXTREMELY condescending. Aaron is a grown man, not some small child that's being reprimanded. The phrase "Mister Aaron" came across as really belittling, and I think that was unnecessary.
yes, condesending. in fact that is a generous apraisal. my veiw for what it's worth, is that they should have gotten someone who was a little more diplomatic to reply to aaron's post. kai's post was just plain mean and demeaning and it really showed the pettiness of the entire situation. it totally debased the integrity of the icon staff, whom in my opinion to this point, have done a superlative job. but about my proposal, i ask aaron right here, would you support a zone vote on your reinstatement as a judge with full rights and responsibilities, or would you just like to walk away. just curious.
I have mixed feelings on this Richard. I love icon and all that it stood/stands for, but there is a part of me that just wants it to end. however, I love what I do, and I love all of the contestant, and I think that it is not fair to have them have to get use to a new set of standards put forth by a new judge. I have been there from the start, and it would be nice to finish the season, but I do not think that will happen. The Icon staff just does not approve of my actions and I do not know how they would react to me being around. Not to mention that they would not allow it anyway. But I can't say this enough, this show is about the contestants, and we should all remember that. If I am asked to come back, I might do it. I don't think Tallent should be superseeded by people who have a power struggle going on. Contestant, sing on, and sing well. As I am not a staff member I can vote for ya now! Love ya all!
I don't sign on here very often, but it seems that there is always professionalism being brought into the mix. Zone Icon Staff claims t6o be professional, yet its host shows up drunk and can't pronounce half his words. Needless to say, his speaking grammar is utterly attrocious. As for the rebuttal from Aaron's post from the Icon staff, it sounded very pompous, arrogant and condescending. So let's can the professional bullshit. I don't see anyone getting paid for this. This is supposed to be about fun right?
Icon with out Aaron is like a Cake with out sugar! Like Chicken wings with out the hot saus! It's just wrong! You will be missed dearly.
I think we've all forgotten one important thing regarding the staff's post. This is an online community and as such, everyone controls what information he/she gives out. Being the professionals that they are, i believe the staff refered to him as "Mr. Aaron" not to belittle him but to keep his last name (which is his to give out) out of the mix. I think practicality was the goal here not arrogance and besides, it's easier, and more efficient, to type out "Mr. Aaron" instead of "Mr. Leutennant Commander LaForge."
Everyone involved has put an amazing amount of effort into the contest and i applaud them.
Also, fellow zoners, lets not forget that this is the first run of such a complex operation and things are going to happen. I say we all just build a bridge and get over it.
Aaron, thank you for your words of encouragement. As a contestant, I really did appreciate all of what you had to say; you will be missed.
To the remaining staff, i still think you're all doing a great job; keep it up.
Danielle
As I said before, there were boards on which we could all post giving our thanks and thoughts to the staff about how good their work was, and how much it was apreciated, so please lets not make this board into yet another such, the point here is different and also valid. so lets try and keep it such. Also Aaron's last name was given out several times during Icon broadcasts so an attempt at keeping that private is mute.
Wow. I guess taking time away from the Zone is a good idea. But, since I've stumbled across this board, I'll give my two cents.
I have nothing to say regarding the actual controversy, as saying anything about it would be stupid since we don't have all the facts, or even most of them. I will say, though, that I agree with the majority of those who've commented on the staf's post. Whether Kai himself wrote it, or whether it was a collective effort, it was patronizing and unnecessary. I'm not talking about the Mister Arron bit, although it seems that calling him Aaron would've sufficed, but the overall tone of the post. I'm disappointed, and that's all I'll say about that.
Aaron, you crack me up. You were a fantastic judge. It won't be the same without you, as others have said.
That's all.
Like I said, I'm friends with pretty much everyone on staff. Your qualms are your qualms. I'm not gonna sit here and go poor Aaron, because I feel like tha't's disrespect to the staff as a whole. Aaron, you're a great guy. I have said on ventrilo already, I haven't listened to the show since that first time. I didn't make it; I lost interest. Maybe I'm a bitch, oh well. But because of your energy, you were probably a great judge. I don't know Mark very well; I've only recently started talking to him. But I'm known Ather, Chris, and Liz for almost two years now. I trust their judgement. I think in the end, we'll find all of them have valid points. You will never see me taking sides in a dispute between my friends. I hope you guys can either resolve this or put it behind you. You all knew what kind of challenge this was going to be when you took it on. SO shit didn't work out. Don't let it ruin your friendship.
-- Rosie
As Rosey I'd concitter myself either a friend or aquainted with the staff and have respect for all of them. This does include Aaron. One thing that was mentioned was he brought it up after the tuesday show to people who were not zone regulars. That does not mean they could not come on to the zone and vote based on what was happening so far. I do believe the colective writing could have been written better. That is tuff they put allot of time and effert in and I know they like Aaron and are quite hurt or anoyed at the things he has done. To be honest before his appeal they were trying to keep it quiet before they knew what was happening but Aaron told me and I don't know who else. Another time on zoneBBS vantrillo server he was asking lonestar about if he make cirtin comments for her preformance before the show aird. Aaron is a happy open bubbly person. He probibly talks allot because he likes being close to people, but there is a time to talk and a time not to. I think this board post was a bad idea of him. I think that if something was asked or the staff gave an explanation and explained it and Aaron had a rebuttle ok, but this I found to be quite immature. As he has said there were two leaks and he said he didn't know.. Perhapse he should have payed more attention in meetings. I for one will miss Aaron's funny style of judging, and his flamboyentness, but in all honesty the staff is trying their damnedest to make this a fair contest, and everyone blaming everything on the staff is just plane childish. This is everyone's first time. There are bound to be problems to improve on for next time or next game. The staff and contestants don't need to hear all this cursing and bashing when they are trying their best.
i just think it's crazy. you guys are the first to jump and say it's rigged and blah blah. just look at the other boards. Now the staff is doing what they can do to prevent this, and your all still bitching about it. hmmm, can they do any right?
I don't think so shea. Unfortunatly people on the site won't be happy with out dramma unfortunate for the staff who have done so much to make this enjoyable. If i was on the staff I'd have told half these people to go fuck themselves by now but they keep trying. staff I at least thank you for this enjoyable and exciting show. I also thank the top ten for the preformances and to be able to hear the beautiful voices, and the judges for just helping the show happen.
I'm not going to voice opinions on behalf of either side, as to do so without a complete breakdown of all facts would demonstrate an utter lack of sense. I will, however, say this:
1. *I want to tell you about my experience with Zone Icon and how I feel about what has happened to me*.
By virtue of that sentence alone, it is my opinion that Aaron's post is merely one meant to convey personal thoughts, and should be treated as such by all parties. it could be argued that his divulgence of meeting times (etc) could be consider a breech of the integrity bestowed upon members of the Icon Staff, but...If you see the entire icon team in the Icon channel of the Zone's Ventrilo server for a long enough period, one figures they aren't playing checkers.
2. I find the Staffs' rebuttal extremely and unnecessarily patronizing towards Aaron. While the premise of their statement is a good one, I'm very disappointed by its overall tone.
just kiss and make up people it is a show for crying out loud
Ultimately, I think It comes down to the fact that, if you’re running a competition online, it is impossible too keep it professional and/or confidential. Meetings are held on ventrilo servers, where the staff members are all in their houses, and in some cases, there are other zoners in those houses. Can you honestly say, that you think Shea has never entered a room while Dan has been recording? I don’t believe that Shea would divulge any information to anyone here on the zone, but it doesn’t mean that she doesn’t have access to it. I know that Ally has been present while recordings have taken place, because she’s said as much on other board posts. So, while it was inappropriate for Aaron to have gone on to a server and discussed statistics outside of the staff room as it were, it could be said that other staff members are also exposing other zoners to confidential information, purely because they share a house/flat. And that’s something that is unavoidable due to the nature of the site.
I don’t actually think it’s about right or wrong, I think lessons could be learned on both sides, if Aaron divulged confidential information to a contestant/another zoner, then that was not a very clever thing to do, however, to dismiss him totally because he posted about it on the boards was very petty too IMO, and the tone of Kai’s post was, as has been stated here many times, extremely condescending.
I actually do not think that a zone members vote should be cast to decide whether Aaron should be re-appointed. Partly because we do not know both sides of the story, and partly because what has happened will have created so much bad feeling that even if Aaron were to be re-appointed, it’s doubtful things would be the same.
What I also find somewhat unprofessional is the fact that this matter was not dealt with until after Saturday’s show, or was it during the course of Saturday’s show. Aaron stated that he had gone on to a server on Tuesday night, and that a staff member had been there too, so staff would have been well aware of the situation on Tuesday night. And yet a show aired on Thursday, and part of this week’s show was recorded on Saturday before any of this was addressed. Why was it not addressed on Wednesday, or at least before Aaron had gone into recording the next show?
I also find this whole notion that we should be grateful to the staff, and not put them down because of how hard they have worked, extremely patronising. I don’t think that anyone is in any doubt that the staff, especially Dan and Kai, have worked extremely hard on the production of Icon. But while I think the effort put into the project should be acknowledged, and in fact it has been on many other boards, I believe that if staff matters become public knowledge, I, as the public, have the right to comment on them. And in this instance I believe that certain aspects of this incident have been handled extremely badly and unprofessionally by certain staff members. And given that only one post has been made on behalf of all icon staff, and that one post was extremely patronising and condescending, we have no other reason to think that this is not the view of all the icon staff.
I think that many lessons can be learned from this, the most important of which is that, you have no friends in business.
totally agree with SB here.
and also I did want to say that in my experience and in what I have heard in Cai's interations with others, he will call someone "miss" followed by their first name often, eg. "Miss Rachel". It's just the way he talks. I don't think that aspect of his speech was meant to come across as patronizing at all.
I don't come on here much. I think that if your going to run a show you should run it right or don't run it at all. Aaron did nothing wrong and for him to be a half ass judge is bullshit. You either run a show right or don't run it at all. Just know if you keep running a show like this everyone will disappear and then you'll be wondering what happen to all of your staff and potential contestents. Run it right or don't run it at all. You must feel big and tough because you kick someone out ha!. Well you are all a bunch of losers. Lame assholes.
uh uh no wait a minute. I don't think it's a case of "Aaron did nothing wrong", I think Aaron perhaps acted in bad judgement by disclosing stats, and he himself has admitted that. It's just the way it was all handled that I think people can learn from.
And I appreciate that maybe the tone of Kai's post was perhaps just the way he speaks and was not meant to be patronising, however, if someone was posting something "on behalf of" a group of people, i.e. the staff in this case, then i believe that that post should at least be witnessed by one other staff member before it was posted to the masses, to avoid just such a situation as this, where the tone of the post has caused a lot of bad feeling.
I just hate to see Aaron get used as a scape goat, and that's what I kind of feel like what happened in this case. Like stated in so many posts before, we don't know the whole story. I have to agree that it doesn't seem like things were handled fairly. but what's done is done. It's a shame though. the five minutes of the show I caught this week were enjoyable, and Aaron makes it enjoyable to listen to. Sorry Fella. I know the feeling though. I've been in your shoes.
Hi Aaron,
I don't know you but I just wanted to say you will be missed very much on zone icon. Besides listening to the contestants, it was you I look forward to hearing the most. You crack me up and you are so energetic. "Oh my God! I love that song!"
LMAO! I will miss hearing you each week. "Loved it!"
Would you mind making me a sound file of yourself saying "oh my God I love that song!" and Loved it?" lol, j/k. laters.
Eryn
Ok, My opinion is with cmh082. I think that, well... Wjhat's the point of icon if thre's only gonna be 2 instead of 3 judges? isn't icon a spoof of American idol?
There's many similarities, but it's its own show.
hmmm, instead of having a permanent replacement judge then, (there are only three shows left after all), wouldn't it be an idea to have a guest judge for each show? someone who has musical knowledge etc but who wouldn't have to commit to the show or become a member of staff etc?
Wow, this zone icon thing is freekin rediculous now, people, you all know just as much as I do how hard and continuous the staff has been working to make this show a success. Give them some credit. I'm not taking sides here, but, if Aaron did put private information out there (witch, i'm not saying he did) then he should not have the privilage of sitting on the judges pannel, simply because the information he was given was strictly private, and he let it out. Neither me, nor any of you have any clue what goes on in the staff meetings so there for none of you should be stating stuff that you "think" was said or wish was said. Yes if Aaron is no longer a judge, i do believe that the staff should find another judge to take his place, but I don't think that this was unfair action if he really did what he was accused of. Aaron, I don't know you as well as others here do, however I can't sit here and be totally against you for doing what you've done, i understand if you truely didn't see anything wrong with telling the information to a third party that you wouldn't've thought anything would come of what happened. But, you were in those meetings, i wasn't, if it was clearly stated there that no thirdparty was to get any info, then you knew it, and you should've stuck to your promises to the icon staff. But, on the other hand, if you didn't do what you're accused of then, yes i do think you have every rite to defend yourself and tell exactly what did happen. You will truely be missed on the show, you were an awesome judge, and I'm sorry that it had to come to this, but don't give up. There will be plenty of other oppertunities for you. This place and its members has just totally proven how ungreatfull and immature they really are. I think if half of you members had to put up with what the cl's and admins put up with you'd be handling things exactly how they are. And as for Kai's post, i must say it was truely professional and necissary. I'm sorry if most or all of you disagree with me, but i'm simply stating my oppinion on this, and being that i do know how hard the staff works, i do believe that you members are totally unappreciative of there time and efforts to bring this site some entertainment. To the staff, keep working hard, and good luck to the contestants that are still in the running.
Nicole, it's not that we're unappreciative of the hard work the icon staf does, it's just that this board, isn't here for that.
Nicole, apreciation has been given elsewhere, please we just ask that if you want to praise them, that's the place. comments on here aren't meant as saying they aren't apreciated, or valued, jut this isn't the place for it.
I'm not praising them, I'm just saying, that it seems that most of the members here don't recognize how hard the staff works, why does it always have to be the staff's fault for every mess up, it can never be the person who really was wrong who gets blamed because the staff is always wrong, rite? no, they do there share, and they were trying to make this show a professional and entertaining event, but something or someone always has to fuck it up, and Aaron this is in no way shape or form directed at you, not in the least bit.
I guess I do have something to say here. First of all let me say that credit nees to be given where credit is due. The audio team do a fab job with Icon. It sounds so professional and really awesome. They put a lot of time into what they do and I take my hat off to them. This bord was not created to give them hipe, i created it to tell my story and to just put it all out there so to speak. The work of the icon staff is appreciated so much that they have an audio club bord, that we can all post there praises. Now I am not sorry that I created this bord, however I feel as though it has caused undo stress for the staff. I didn't mean for that to happen, but I wanted to make a point and tell my story. Although I did not appreciate the behavior of the icon staff, let's not forget they are people. people who are trying to do the best that they can. So I have told my story and people have read it and told there thoughts on the matter. let us support the contestants in there race to the prize. Good luck to all of you, sing sing sing! Loved it!
Wow! All of you who posted to this board have had very valid reasons for the things you said except for a things said here and there. I will be the first one to say that I don't pretend to know how much work goes into one of these shows to make it a success. Aaron, I don't know you very well, myself, but the few times I listened to Zone Icon when it was rebroadcasted, it was very well done. I think that you worked really hard at it. I did think at the beginning of this board, when I read Kai's post, that he was rather patronizing, but reading the rest of the comments on this, served to remind me that this is indeed the way he writes. I agree with those of you who have said to just go for the contestants. Please, please, please, do not spoil the last weeks for them. They have been working very, very hard at this and shouldn't be in the middle of all this. In my opinion, this could have been solved between the staff members and a cleaner conclusion reached. And, if a cleaner conclusion had been reached, then no one need have been hurt, like Aaron and the staff members were. One more thing I want to say is this: Staff, I acknowledge that you have all worked very hard to bring this show to all of the participants, but as Kevin says multiple times, this is not a praising the staff board. So, I am not going to complain or praise. Just ponder this: If you are going to revoke someone's staff duties, do it completely and not halfway through. It's like eating a peanut butter sandwich... A very sticky one and not drinking milk to get your mouth unstuck. Just think..... All of you can ponder this.
Araceli
well I'm taking aaron's side on all this so what if he told people he said they were friends off the zone and why should people who have nothing to do with judging have the right to vote on if he should be apart of all judging things
Incidentally, I noticed that some were speculating about if there would be a new judge, and I think you have a right to know that there is.
I see absolutely no point in keeping this from you all, and as I was not expressly forbidden to do so either in writing or verbally during recording sessions this weekend, and in the interest of clearing up any confusion, there is a new judge, and she is has not previously been a Zone member so don't go giving her a hard time. She's stepped into Erin’s shoes under difficult circumstances, and as someone who's gotten this far in the contest, I would hope that you can all try and support her by not slagging her off or questioning her abilities to judge.
I'm sure you will all get to hear about her background on Tuesday.
In a way, it's kind of good that she hasn't been involved with the Zone or Icon thus far, and her connection with the competition is twice removed from Icon staff members themselves. In other words, she isn't the girlfriend of a judge or contestant, she isn't a family member of a contestant or judge etc.
Erin, I'm deeply saddened that all of this had to happen. I'm sure you did do something wrong, either by accident or not it doesn't really matter. The point is, something did happen. However, I think you're a cool guy, funny, and I like you a lot as a person.
That is not to say however, that I see the Icon staff as innocent in all of this either!
I'm sorry folks, but your handling of this situation smacks of earlier bad conduct with regards Zone Icon secrecy etc. I have always said, right from the beginning, that you should have made certain things public! It was my idea that full voting stats were made available for example, and indeed, that's one thing you have implemented very well, so thanks for that.
But there have been other things that you have kept far too close to your chests with all of this, which, in a small community like The Zone, only Leeds to suspicions and bad feeling.
For example, you talk about codes of conduct for the judges, and that Erin broke the rules. But, what rules? Rules for the staff should have been made absolutely public prior to this competition even starting! How do we know that these rules are written in stone, and not simply invented on the spot? I'm sure they're not just made up to suit specific situations, but my point is, how does the Zone know what governs how you guys conduct yourselves behind the scenes? The community has to put a lot of trust in you all to make fare decisions, but you're asking them to place that trust in you without specifying what is and is not allowed.
Now, I think this contest is a brilliant idea, and I hope there are many more to come, and I appreciate that this first one will have it's teething troubles, but there are some things which are just common sense, that you could have done to avoid a lot of the aggro that you're all getting now. For example, making the emergency meeting, or at least part of it, a matter of public record by broadcasting it. You might think that's a stupid idea, but how do we know that you did in fact give Erin a fare crack at a defence? Again, I'm not saying you didn't, just that there's no proof that you did either.
As for Kai's post, dude! No! No no no no no! You do not dress someone down in that belittling manner in front of everyone else! That was a completely irresponsible rebuttal, and I really do think an apology is most certainly in order.
Anyway, sorry to Erin, we'll all miss your colourful judging technique, congrats to the audio team for continuing to do a fantastic job of production on the shows, thanks to the Zone for voting me on this far in the contest, and good luck to Soprano, your task is not going to be an easy one.
Huggles to everyone,
Matt
Matt, I must say, that i agree with you wholeheartedly. Both sides have done wrong, and it's not fair that we should take sides. Yes, the rules should've been written out in stone, ie. bullet points along with a paragraph, at least, description for the code of conduct for the judges and contestants alike. No rule can be effectively enforced if not written out in black and white. Therefore, if someone were to violate these said rules, then the person in question could then be reprimanded according to the exact rule that he/she broke.
Furthermore, I feel personally that the sponsors should know about this situation. They've given out of their generosity to help us in this endeavor, and suddenly this happens. However, if we all just step back and take a look, this is a big deal but it really isn't. The original idea was to host this show for fun, but now it's, in my opinion, beginning to reach a pointof pettiness.
Both sides have wrong to admit, and both sides should, I hope, try to reconcile and move on. As for Aaron, I sincerely appreciate your integrity in admitting to your wrongs but at the same time not holding any grudges. However, I again, do agree that the official statement that was put out by the staff is very condescending. Not only do you call him Mr. Aaron, which is debatably a personal manner of speech, the superlatives that you've used make his actions seem to be unforgivable crimes that were utterly deserving of metaphorical execution. Furthermore, the rules, like i've stated above, were never written out for all of us to se, so you can't rightfully put him on the spot.
The rules should've been made public so that we could all be aware of what the judges were responsible for doing. Just because these things were said and emphasized greatly in a meeting doesn't mean that it's official. Besides, if this were to be truly professional, then to make the rules public would've been required. I'm sure that I could even now get a copy of the code of conduct for the deens, the professors, and the other various workers at my school.
In the end, the key to solving this whole thing, is in my humble opinion, to let bygones be bygones. Aaron is a great person, and so are the other judges. I'm friends with them all, so I would hate to see you all broken up in terms of friendship just because of some petty show hosted over the Internet. And, for the record, I'm not bashing the show, but what I am saying is that we've let our feelings and emotions get the better of us and impair our judgments. All in all, this was an idea that you all had to have fun, but now it seems to threaten, I feel, the very friendship and trust that had previously been amongst you all.
Aaron, I'm grateful for your integrity in admitting your wrongs.
Kai and company, thank you so much for the hard work that you guys do, and make sure to get some sleep, too! You guys need rest! lol
Judges, thank you for taking so much time out to do this for us, and welcome to ctsoprano!
Well, shoudl be doing homework. lol
Iris
I have to agree with some of the previous posts. Icon was meant to be a fun, community driven contest, not an undercover operation governed by the Official Secrets Act. I’ve spoken to the new judge briefly on Ventrilo, and she admitted that she didn’t really know any of the Icon staff well. Apparently she met Kai a few years ago, but hadn’t heard from him in some time. Kai contacted her the other day needing a replacement judge after Aaron’s dismissal, and the rest is history. My main question about that is, how can the Icon Staff trust someone they hardly know with the kind of “delicate” (Note the quotation marks.) information they discuss in those meetings? I mean, they didn’t even want the Zone members to know when they were conducting said meetings. I find it pathetic that after Jammin 85.3 resigned from their involvement in Icon, the Icon staff came crawling back, asking if they could use Jammin’s Ventrilo server so that they wouldn’t have to be observed by Zone members during meetings and recording sessions. What is the big secret? Is there something shady going on here? Is this really about entertaining the listeners and having fun, or is it just a chance for a few overly controlling individuals to exercise the power they wish they had? The bottom line is, none of these issues would even be in question now had the community been more involved from the beginning. A clear set of rules could have been decided on publicly, and we would all have had the assurance that the decisions made by the Icon staff were governed by those rules, rather than power trips and favoritism.
Hi all,
Well I heard the show last night, and I didn't know what was up with Jammin 85.3 until someone told me because I was listening and was like, where's the music? Anyway, I didn't get to hear the new judge's background, but I thought, no afence, that the show isn't the same. I'm not trying to favor Aaron, but everytime me and my roommates listened to the show we always laughed and had a good time. That's why we were making an archive of the show. It seems like this new judge seems to know everything about music like how to open your mouth properly, and how other things should be done. What's with this opening your mouth thing? A few people have been saying that if she knows so much about music, why doesn't she get up and sing something? I dunno, I think the Zone Icon show has turned into nothing but seriousness from what I heard last night on the show, and not really that much fun. I wish it could be some of both like it use to be. I do have to agree with the last post about having someone new just show up and not knowing them, how do you know if you trust them? I totally agree with that, especially if no one has talked to her and if Kai hasn't talked to her much, why couldn't you just let Aaron stick it out until the end. I'm not bitching, I'm just stating my own oppinion. I want the show to be fun like it use to be. Are we going to have new judges next year or whenever the next show is gonna be? Or are all these judges going to be the same? Anyway, does anyone agree with me? If not it's ok, I just wondered. I just hope after this show, the next ones will be better and both the audience and judges and staff can work together to make it better.
I agree that last nights show was on the serious end.
If it wasn't for the contestants doing such a great job, I would have lost interest fast.
While Christina knows her musial stuff, as a huge choir nerd what she says makes loads of sense, personality and delivery are not her strong points.
Wow, so this topic is still up! lol Well, i can see how it could be different, but yes I do agree with the point of why a judgewas chosen who no one knows much about. (no offense to the judge, per sey; just a commentary on the decisions that have been made) Well, but the personality and delivery comes as a person becomes more exposed to an audience and the experience of performing for them.
lol, you guys kill me! Everyone is saying the audience should have more say and should be filled in on all that is going on. Um, the last I checked it was a broadcasted show. Why the hell would they take the time to fill us in, when it is going to be on the show. In that case if you want it that way. Why the hell even have a show? they could email each and every one of you like it seems you want them to. Hell, I'm sure that would make it a lot easier on them. lol! No, really. It keeps getting compared to American Idol. Do you see them calling or emailing each of the audience members to tell them what is going on behind the seens? lol! You asked them for this and they would laugh in your face! We don't know the whole stories behind all of what is going on there either, do we. I'm sure if one of there judges leaked information or couldn't be trusted, they sure as hell wouldn't ask the audience what they should do about it!
To the ones talking about how the show was boaring this weak. Stop and think about it. IF all you got was bitching from your audience, and your putting all your time and hard work into it, would you want to keep putting your all into it? Why should they? It seems no matter what they do, someone thinks they can do it so much better. So yeah, stop and think about that.
You can bitch about what I'm going to say, and guess what I don't really give a crap. It will save you bitching about someone else! hehehehe! yeah, Great job to the staff! Don't let these people drag the show down! Your doing a great job! cristina, job well done. It was your first show and you fit right in! Keep up the good work staf!
Smiles, Shea
Shea, I couldn't agree with you more! Very very well said
Shea, firstly it would be fair to say that considering you are living with one of the icon staff members, it’s only natural that you are going to be biased and won’t hear a bad word said against them.
Secondly, while in part I don’t think the audience should have an actual say in how the show is run, it is actually the audience who counts. Without an audience, you don’t have a show as such, so if the audience are critical then that criticism does need to be taken into account to a degree to ensure success of future shows. After all, they are the ones who vote for the contestants, and if there were no audience, there would be no winner, so lets not discount the audience totally.
With regard to the dismissal of Aaron, I think whether he should or should not have been dismissed is something we might never really know, but the way it was handled was badly to say the least. If on American idol, or x factor (which American idol is modelled on), a judge leaked sensitive info and was dismissed, a press conference would be held, giving full details as to the reasons of said judge’s dismissal, with opportunity for people to ask questions, which would then be answered by the representative of the show. In this instance, Aaron posted a topic before anything could be announced, and only part way through that post did any member of staff bother to comment, and when he did, it was done in such a patronising and condescending manner, that any respect people have had for the icon staff’s conduct has been lost. Since then not one member of icon staff has had anything to say, not one. And don’t tell me it’s because whatever they say people will bitch about it anyway, I just don’t buy that. People are bitching already, and the less the staff say, the more people are going to draw their own conclusions and make up their own minds as to what happened and should be happening.
If the icon staff actually wanted to make icon work, they would be taking criticism on board and looking to make changes so that future competitions would run more smoothly and with less hitches, and less chance for criticism. But instead it seems they’re sulking and that, in your opinion, they can’t be bothered to make the effort anyway as we’re all so ungrateful. That to me is a very very childish way to react, and if they ever thought that people would consider icon to be a professionally put together show, their current actions are actually ensuring that people think the opposite.
They are the organizers, we, are in fact, the customers. And the organizers should be looking to ensure that their customers are happy. Not only that, people have sponsored actual money for this event, and the way the staff are currently acting is making a mockery of it all. I think the fact that jamin85.3 have withdrawn their support speaks volumes for how this is going, if I were sponsoring my money into this I’d seriously be considering doing the same.
I do think that with regards to Christina, it is natural that she will react differently as she doesn't know any of the contestants so wouldn't necessarily react to them in the same way as a regular zoner who was being a judge.
Hello Zoners,
I am speaking on behalf of JAMMIN' 85.3 in this post. A lot of people have wanted to know why you can't here Icon on our station anymore. Due to tecnical issues that were out of our control on last week's broadcast, we were voted out by the staff. Icon is a wonderful project, and as such, we will not be withdrawing our sponsorship. We have commited to helping Icon by putting forth money for one of the prizes, as well as the free domaine name for the winner. So although we are not broadcasting Icon, you will still here our name in the credits. A zoner asked me why our name is still in the credits, and this is why. Our station is only one year old, and we have done all we can with keeping all it's technology working. technical issues do appear and we do our best to adapt to them. In this instance however, the issues chose to pop up at a most inopportune time. To Danielle, we apologize that that happened right in the middle of your selection. We are unclear as to why this happened, and arre examining the station software as well as the episode of that show. But JAMMIN' 85.3 is rooting for the contestants of Icon and we hope that you all will continue to share with us the gift of music and friendly competition. So from Mr. Hot Pink, Peter, Guillermo, and Dennis, rock on!
your friends,
JAMMIN' 85.3
See? things are slowly starting to get back to normal. If only on the surface, normalcy is returning and that is the best we can hope for.
oy! all this bitchery! Makes me wanna bitch about people bitching...
lol blake cheers shea, and shakes head at suggar baby. I wouldn't want to agree with the fact that Shea is byist I actually agree with her. It is a show as for the press conference... Well they didn't need to. Aaron did it for them. thanks
Thanks Candy. Claire, obviously you don't know me to well! If I agreed with what you say and Dan doesn't, just because we live together doesn't mean I am going to agree with him! I am very opinionated and if I disagree I will say so. So I don't think it's fair you make that assumption. That seems to be happenening a lot these days. Second of all. I never once said it was my opinion that the staff is soaking because of the bitching or as you called it critisism. I said if it were me. I never once said that's how they feel! And if you want to call me childish then so be it, just because it's not your opinion sure as hell doesn't make me childish. But I'll take that, that's fine!
I don't see how the staff not replying to all this is looking bad on them by no means! I mean what happened is between the staff and Aaron. It should have never been brought to the public in this way. but since it was, I feel they are being professional about it by not coming on and telling there story and making Aaron look bad! they delt with it the way they felt was best, I'm sure. So it's best left there. If it would have been, it wouldn't have turned into this he said she said crap. No matter what either side says, noone knows the truth but the staff and Aaron!
last of all, Constructive critisism is one thing, but to bitch about every freaking decision they make is just crazy! I'm by no means pointing this to just you, some just take it to far!
Shea
I find it interesting that the staff hasn't replied. Yet, certain members, will take to question people's post with them on ventrilo. This happened yesterday between Kai and Agent orange. I shouldn't have to worry that because of what I post on here the staff will gripe about it with me in ventrilo. That is immature of them to do. Yes aaron did wrong, and he has admitted to that. Certain members of staff have not handled things appropriately, and in my view are still handling certain things inappropriately, but no admission of wrong doing has been made. Nobody's perfect, and that includes certain members of icon staff. If this holier than thou atitude continues, I will not enter in another season, even though I strongly believe in the idea. When you do the show, you are staff. When you're in vt, you aren't staff anymore when it comes to show things. Personal and professional hats or roles shouldn't mix. Shay or anyone else can say whatever they like, but we have the right to express our opinion. The staff is very talented in doing the show, and I'm not saying they aren't, but a role on staff is just that, a role. Outside of the show, you should act like anyone else.
In post 31 I said that I'd probably post later as well, and, here it is.
When all is said and done, we all have to remember that this is only a show, and was meant to be fun.
Yes, both parties made mistakes by not handling things propperly, but, that's life.
I mean, if this whole thing were to go right down to the final show without a hickup, my goodness, how boring would that have been.
So can't we now get on with the rest of the show?
We're so close to the end, and let's admit, a lot of us have followed it from the beginning.
Let's make it a good one, and something to remember.
Or am I naive?
NO, in the words of Freddie Mercury, the show must go on, so let's enjoy it! I dunno if next year if we're going to have the same judges or different ones, maybe Aaron could sign up again and maybe he'll be our judge again, but who knows. But we don't got much longer to go and I'm kind of excited to know who's going to win.
Honestly, with the acception of the audio team who, by the way, are fantastic, I think it might be prudent to totally refresh the staff of icon next season, so that the zone colective can refresh their own views on the contest. And trust me, I don't call for that lightly.
Wow! I can’t believe I read all the previous 88 posts. Lol That’s what sleeplessness does to you. It’s funny. I was only able to hear up to week2 of Zone Icon and couldn’t listen anymore do to the fact that my internet got shut off temporarily. However, when I could actually get online again, I finally was able to listen to the results show that was recently replayed on this past Friday.
I don’t know how Tuesday’s show went but I must say, I was not impressed with what I heard that day. I didn’t have a chance to look at the boards and couldn’t understand why Aaron wasn’t a judge. Lol “Who was this strange person who took his place and why?” Needless to say, it bothered me very much. The energy was certainly lacking and the excitement I felt over finally getting to listen to Icon again deflated as the show continued.
I finally took the time to catch up to all that was going on with Icon and I have to say, “Damn! Damn! Damn!” I go offline for a couple weeks and all this happens? I think there should have been a log-in announcement of the change in judges at least. But since there wasn’t, oh well.
Like many of you, I agree that the post submitted by the Icon staff was very condescending to say the least. I love you an all, Kai, but the sarcasm you all chose to use as your single response to this whole fiasco was really unnecessary and unprofessional in my opinion. I understand that you as Icon staff try to do your best to make this as professional as possible but really, enough is enough.
Yes, Aaron did breach confidentiality by making the stats public to a few of his buddies. But who was the miserable fucker who was there and snitched on him? Why didn’t he say anything to Aaron at the time to warn him? Whoever it was, they are as much to blame because they themselves could have prevented this whole thing by just sending him an IM or asking to speak with Aaron in another channel. Instead, he just let Aaron blissfully talk on and therefore causing all of this. Some friend, I say.
I also would like to make it clear that I strongly disagree with every single one of Shea’s posts concerning this topic. All of these posts are not meant as a personal attack against the Icon staff. So why be on the defensive all the time? When the staff took on the responsibilities as staff, they knew it would take work and effort in putting all of this together. So I for one am sick and tired of hearing complaints about how much effort/time/work they all put in Zone Icon. We got it already. Lol and all the talk about “bitching” does get very repetitive and annoying after a while.
The person I feel bad for is the replacement judge that was pulled in to take Aaron’s place. It is obvious just by reading this topic that she’s got a lot to live up to after the awesome job Aaron did. Yes, people are going to compare her judging to Aaron’s judging. That’s only human. It’s just like how a lot of people compare the two Dumbledores in the Harry Potter movies. <grin> So my advice to you Soprano is to just do your thing and try not to let our opinions on the matter bother you. I’m sure if circumstances were different, I would enjoy your judging more but really, I got used to Aaron.
So after all that I’ve written down here, I still plan to listen to Zone Icon. I really think Icon is still awesome but as many others have stated, Aaron will be and is surely missed. My biggest hope is that whoever is responsible for running Icon will not let all these setbacks deter them from running another show next year. Lol I want my chance as a contestant! My best goes out to the rest of the contestants and may you three each break a leg!
Much Love, Michelle
michelle, you can disagree with me , that#s fine. But as you said you have not been here and have not heard all the bitching! So yeah, I do have right to say that! smiles! How do we know the person didn't talk to Aaron about it? Only because he came to the boards with it first? As I said before, we don't know both sides to the story!
Shea